tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX November 18, 2012 9:00am-10:00am EST
spectacular rain-free day. if you're heading anywhere for thanksgiving dinner, you won't have to worry about the weather. enjoy it. >> all the family football games. got to love them. that does it for us this morning. stay tuned for fox news sunday and join us back here at 6:00. irector david us tells congress what he knows about the benghazi attack. ♪ >> chris: in a series of closed-door hearings, lawmakers investigate what happened. before, during and after the assault that killed four americans. we'll get the latest from saxby chambliss, vice chair of the senate intelligence committee and joe lieberman, head of the senate homeland security committee. then, republicans look to regroup, after a disappointing election. does the party need a new message or better messengers?
we'll talk with two leading governors bobby jindal of louisiana, and scott walker of wisconsin. plus, the president and congressional leaders try to pull back from the fiscal cliff. with 44 days and counting we'll ask our sunday panel can a deal be made in time. and our power player of the week, killing us softly with her songs, all, right now, on fox news sunday. ♪ >> chris: and hello, again from fox news in washington. we'll talk with our guests in a moment but first an update on the tense military situation on the gaza border. leland vittert has the latest. leland? >> reporter: chris, israel is very much a country on the brink of war. we have seen hundreds, if not thousands of tanks and personally carriers, ready to push into the gaza strip, in a moment's notice, because the
airstrike simply did not stop the rockets flying out of gaza, towards israel. and the iron dome intercepted a number of those rockets today. however, about 8 or 10 got through, causing a half dozen injuries inside of southern israel. and, for the israelis, the airstrikes continued pounding away, day five of hitting the gaza strip, so far the airstrikes killed 50-plus people, half of them civilians, including a number of children and the air forces hit almost a thousand targets, and, leveled much of hamas's infrastructure, inside of the gaza strip. as for the ground war, which certainly caused more civilian casualties, a major escalation. israel called up 30,000 reservists and they are on the borders now, infantry and their tanks, simply waiting for the "go" order to head in andhe israeli prime minister is willing to escalate it into a full ground war and that is largely seen as a warning to the peace negotiations going on, inside of cairo, to either he a cease-fire treaty signed sometime in the next 24 hours or
there will be tanks rolling across these fields, into gaza. chris, back to you. >> chris: leland vittert reporting live from the israel-gaza border. thanks for that. joining us now, two leading senators on national security issues. saxby chambliss, vice chair of the intelligence committee an joe lieberman, head of the homeland security committee. senators, before we get to the benghazi investigation i want to ask you both about the growing conflict between israel and the palestinians in gaza. senator lieberman, while israel clearly has to be able to defend itself, do you worry about a ground war in gaza, especially, in the changing post-arab spring middle east? >> well, obviously it is in the first instance to hamas, i don't think the israelis really want a ground war. they'll go into gaza if they feel they need to, to eliminate the remainder of the missiles, and a lot of which are supplied to hamas by iran, that have been
coming over to israel, hundreds of them, this year, so, really, the decision is up to hamas, as to whether there will be a ground invasion of gaza or not. and remember, what hamas is, and the palestinian authority, which recognized the right of israel to exist and has diplomatic relations with israel and us, it is a terrorist group, sworn to the destruction of israel and actually seized power in a coup from the palestinian authority. so these people are bad actors and no nation would put up with what israel has up until now and they have to defend their people and their nation. >> chris: but, senator chamblis, obviously the situation, all over the middle east has changed dramatically, in the last year, egypt is no longer one by a pro-american dictator but leaders of the muslim brotherhood. should president obama put more pressure on the egyptian government, even threaten to cut off aid, to get hamaso stop firing those rockets? >> he needs to exert every kind
of pressure he can, chris to try to make sure it doesn't eso a f the palestinians and the israelis and, whatever that takes. but, you know, the problem the israelis have is that these rockets are being fired on them, from places that they can't reach by flying over in the air and they are putting them in school yards where they are surrounded by schoolchildren and firing them from marketplaces crowded with people. and, israel has a right to protect itself. and, if sending ground troops in is the only way they can clean out these nests of rockets being fired at them, you know, you can't blame them for doing it. >> chris: all right, let's turn to benghazi. both of you held closed-door hearings this week with top administration officials and david petraeus reportedly dead, in these closed door hearings while he always believed terrorists were behind the
attack the administration watered down the talking points susan rice ends up using because they didn't want to tip that he have terrorists that they were on this them. let me start with you, senator chamblis, you were in one of those hearings with david petraeus, did he say it and did you believe it. >> he did not say that in those words, chris and i did not interpret anything he said to be that. general petraeus, number one, is obviously a great man and great leader, both from a military standpoint and with, also, the role with the cia and what he did say is from day one we knew it was a terrorist attack. there was no question about it. you you don't bring automatic weapons and rpgs and mortars to a so-called demonstration. still, there are some questions that are yet to be answered about the planning of this. whether it was done over a period of time, or, whether it was truly a spontaneous
reaction. there is no indication now that it was anything other than a planned attack. >> chris: do you have an understanding as to why the talking points changed over the course of that first week? the white house said yesterday they made one change in the talking points and that was to change the word consulate to diplomatic facility. >> it was kind of interesting, chris. at the hearing we had on thursday and friday, we had every leader of the intelligence community there, including folks from the state department, the fbi, everybody there was asked, do you know who made these changes and nobody knew. the only entity that reviewed the talking points that was not there was the white house. so, you know, i don't know whether -- what they said yesterday is exactly right or not. but, what i do know is that every member of the intelligence community says that references to al qaeda were removed by somebody, and they don't know who and references to attacks
versus demonstrations, were... >> chris: let me ask you a question. will your committee, the senate intelligence committee, call ambassador susan rice to ask her to testify? >> i don't know the answer to that question right now, senator feinstein and i will talk about that. two more hearings are scheduled -- >> should she be called. >> she'll have to come in and testify at some point. whether it is in a closed hearing or an open hearing. we're going to have an open hearing, too. but at some point she needs to come in and say what the president or the white house directed her to say. >> chris: senator lieberman, dianne feinstein, the democratic chair of senator chambliss's committee read the unclassified talking points to reporters and they showed that she was sticking to the talking points. do you buy that? >> i've looked at the talking points, our committee heard testimony from the intelligence
community. and during the first week after the attack on our mission in benghazi, the initial opinion -- and they kept saying it was initial -- of the intelligence community was that there had been a protest before the terrorist attack. nobody could deny it as saxby said it was a terrorist attack and that is what the talking points reflected. whether it used names like al qaeda, the terrorist group or al-sharia. so i must say, as i look at what we now know the intelligence community -- and i look at ambassador rice's statements, on television, on the following sunday morning, i don't find anything inconsistent between those two. but, i must tell you that i think we are focusing on questions that are not insignificant but are not the most significant. of course there was a terrorist attack. whether or not there was a protest before it is
interesting, but not that critical to me. there was a terrorist attack and the question is, who did it. and, then, much more important for the long run, why in the midst of a rising crescendo of intelligence that made clear that al qaeda and the islamic groups were coming into eastern libya in the surrounding of benghazi did we leave our state department personnel there without security and why, when they were attacked did our defense department not have resources in a where nearby to come to their defense. i mean, long run, those are the critical questions. >> chris: i want to ask both of you a series of questions in this regard, because you do hold these closed door hearings, this week with all of the top officials. and i'm going to try to ask you to do it in a lightning round, quick questions, quick answers as somebody said, good luck with that. senator lieberman, after meeting with top -- this isn't quite to the point but i promise we'll get there -- after meeting with top fbi officials this week, are
you satisfied with their decision not to notify congress and the white house about the investigation of general petraeus's affair until as late as they did which was last week? >> you know, i still have questions about that. i think, first, you have to acknowledge that the fbi has developed a very important cybersecurity capacity, which is important to our country. second, they got this -- >> lightning round. >> we're in the lightning round... i haven't answered that to my satisfaction yet. in other words, i understand why they would keep an fbi investigation confidential from everybody until they saw there was a crime but this suddenly involves two of our highest ranking generals, petraeus and allen. and, i think that was a different circumstance and i still have an inclination to believe that somebody should have notified the white house of that early in the investigation. >> chris: senator, are you
satisfied that this personal affair involving general petraeus did not affect either, one, the way he conducted the whole benghazi matter, and, two, his testimony to congress either back in september or this week. >> i see nothing to indicate that that had any impact on his decisions that he made relative to benghazi or any other issue, for that matter. >> chris: and, nothing -- no impact on his testimony, there has been -- perhaps he was towi toeing the line in september to keep his job. >> there is no indication of his testimony on friday of that. he has been straightforward and was straightforward on friday. >> chris: senator chamblis, this is an issue senator lieberman was raising, with all the warnings beforehand, who do you to you feel is responsible for the failure to beef up security at the benghazi consulate before the attack ever happened. >> that is a question yet to be answered.
we have to get state department officials into really explain why you send an ambassador, basically unguarded with a few libyan guards and the cia was not there to guard him -- >> one of the top state department people -- >> that is not his function to determine security, though. but we have got the right person coming in, for our next hearing, to talk about that. and i'm sure that susan will do likewise but we have to find out from the state department why decisions were made relative to the security and they were obviously, woefully, inadequate. >> chris: let me ask you both in the regard. secretary of state clinton has not testified. is that someone you need to hear from -- >> i think she has agreed to come testify and needs to. >> no, it is very important. look, with -- what we know now about the intelligence of the terrorists who were in the vicinity of benghazi, in my opinion, it was irresponsible to have our state department
personnel there, with only three security guards, they were easily overrun in the attack of september 11th and we should have given them the protection they deserved, or should have closed that mission in benghazi, as the british government had done a short while before. the second point is really an important one, we are cutting back in supporting our defense, we -- during the war in libya against gadhafi, we had ships offshore, if they were still there, they could have sent resources to knock out the second round of terrorist attacks... >> chris: i want to ask you that. during the 7 hours, between the first attack on the consulate and the second on the annex, given the forces we had on the ground, could u.s. forces have done more realistically to protect the u.s. forces and protect -- to u.s. personnel, and, prevented the last two -- >> that is key and goes to preventing the last two, the former seals from being killed
and the answer is we didn't have resource in range and they acted quickly but had to get somebody from spain and croatia and forces who arrived much too late. they sent a drone and it was an unarmed dronend if we had an armed drone it could have probably knocked out the people firing the mortars that killed the two seals. >> chris: given what we had there, you are saying -- >> there was no capacity to defend our personnel, in a timely way. once the attacks occurred and we can't let that happen again, and, part of what we have to do to make sure it doesn't happen again is we adequately support oush defen our defense -- >> and the other question, was it dod are state's fault. and we don't know the answer. >> chris: finally, a minute left, senators john mccain and graham called for a special congressional committee to
investigate benghazi. let's look at what senator graham said. >> watergate investigated from a joint committee, iran contra benefitted from a select committee. >> chris: i want to ask you both briefly, do you think we need -- let me start first with you, do we need a special committee or can your standing committees do it. >> first of all, these two guys are two of my best friends and joe's best friends and we travel a lot together to dangerous places, but the committees within the united states senate are capable of investigating this in the right way and this is one time i have a slight disagreement with my good friends. >> i respectfully separate from my two amigos on this one and agree with saxby. this was a tragedy but doesn't rise to the level of 9/11/01. our committees can handle this and come up with the answers, and if for some reason our colleagues think when we're done we haven't done a good job,
think about a special committee. >> chris: and i can't let you go, senator lieberman you are retiring at the end of the year, 24 years and there is speculation and you are not that close to this president, but there has been speculation, have there been any talks with the administration about taking over the top spot at state, defense, cia, any talks about it an do you have any interest? >> the answer is, no. there have been no talks. second, it is not what i'm planning for the next chapter of my life. but, really, as i said, before, when it has come up, when a president of the united states, asks to you serve your country, that i love, and, believe in so deeply, you have to give it serious consideration. but, i'm not waiting by the phone. i don't expect the call. >> he's got my vote for confirmation. on any of the above. we're going to miss this guy. >> chris: senator lieberman, no more but you may be back here in a few months as secretary lieberman. >> that would surprise me.
but it would always be good to be with you on the fair and balanced fox sunday show. >> chris: there you go! senator, thank you both and we'll stay on top of benghazi and the conflict in gaza. up next, two leading republican governors take a hard look at what their party needs to do before it faces voters again. i'm a conservative investor. i invest in what i know. i turned 65 last week. i'm getting married. planning a life. there are risks, sure. but, there's no reward without it. i want to be prepared for the long haul. i see a world bursting with opportunities. india, china, brazil, ishares, small-caps, large-caps, ishares. industrials. low cost. every dollar counts. ishares. income. dividends. bonds. i like bonds. ishares. commodities. diversification. choices. my own ideas.
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>> chris: after a disappointing election day it is no surprise republicans would do some soul-searching. but, what is a surprise is how quickly it has begun and how serious it has gotten. joining us to talk about the future of the party, governor bobby jindal, of louisiana, the new chair of the republican governor's association, in the state capitol, baton rouge and from san diego, wisconsin governor scott walker, the new vice chair of the rga, gentlemen, this week, mitt romney, in a conference call with big donors, attributed his defeat to president obama, giving out gifts to minorities and young people, governor jindal, you reacted sharply to that. let's look: >> the president's campaign did was focus on certain members of his base coalition, given extraordinary financial gifts
from the government... >> i absolutely reject that notion, that description. >> we have to stop being the stupid party and i mean, we have to stop making stupid comments. >> chris: governor, what was stupid about what romney said? >> well, two things. first, governor romney is an honorable and exceptional man and i'm proud to have campaigned for him across the country but a absolutely reject what he said. we as the republican party have to campaign for every vote and if we want people to like us we have to like them first, and, you don't start to like people by insulting them and saying their votes were bought. we are an aspirational party and, we as a republican party, believe our conservative principles are good for every, single voter, not a marketing campaign and not having better pr, folks, we'll convince and fight for every, single vote, showing them we are the party for the middle class, upward mobility an don't start winning majorities and elections by
insulting our voters. >> chris: governor walker, look at this exit poll from election night. who is more in touch with people like you? 53% said obama. 43%, said mitt romney. question, how do republicans convince the middle class that out for them. >> well, i think you see it in the governorships. we now, in a nation that went for a democrat for president, you now have 30 states with republican governors and i think, the trust factor is there. i share the same belief, bobby mentioned as well, we need to be a party that doesn't talk about it. we go out and actively take the message, i think, a winning message, one we won on in each of these states, with the republican governors and we take it and we go out to where people are and have to mention, it works for young people and works for people who come to our country from other countries, and, basically for anyone who wants to live their piece of the american dream and have to show we are serious about reaching out and helping everyone, not just a group here or there. but, everyone in the country,
live their piece of the american dream and i think that starts with our governors, as great messengers. >> chris: governor jindal, what about the debate going on here in washington, right now, about the fiscal cliff? president obama says, look, let's extend the bush tax cuts, lower tax rates for 98% of all taxpayers including the middle class, right now. we can -- i'll sign it today. took out his pen at the news conference and the republicans saying, no, no, no, we can't do that until we decide what we'll do with the top 2% of taxpayers. why wouldn't the middle class voter look at that and say, these guys, the g.o.p., are all about protecting the rich? >> chris, two things, one, we as a republican party need to make it clear and we will make it clear we are not the party of big. big businesses, big banks, big wall street, big bailouts, when it comes to the tax code, the republican party have toic mate clear we are for a lower,
flatter, simpler tax code and you can maintain progress sift and there are ideas to limit deductions and get rid of carvouts and we aren't the party trying to protect the rich. we are the party that wants growth, pro-growth parties and let the democratic party be a government growing revenues and we want to grow the private sector and it starts with flatter, simpler tax codes and can be progressive and there are ideas to get rid of carvesouts to limit the deductions to the wealthy and the second point, when it comes to the fiscal cliff, i was in congress and i guarantee, if they put a band-aid on it we'll be in another one in a few months and we need structural changes, a balanced budget amendment to the constitution, super majority vote, a limit on the growth in government spending so it can't grow faster than the economy or population growth and limiting government spending as a percentage of gdp, without the structural changes we are not getting anywhere and it is kicking the can down the road and this country doesn't need
two liberal or democratic parties and need to show our policies are appealing but don't need to abandon our principles. the country doesn't need two democratic party. >> chris: governor walker, look at the optics, the president says, i'll sign it, lower taxes, the mantra for 98% of americans and the republicans say not so fast, bill kristol was on this show, last week, and he said, you know, it wouldn't kill the republicans to raise taxes on millionaires a little bit. is he wrong? >> well, i think you look at the contrast between washington and what is happening in our states. the vast majority of us new governors two years ago inherit major budget deficits and balanced them without raise taxes and states like wisconsin we cut taxes over the past two years, and, revenues have gone up. i think most americans, not just those in politics, most americans look at what is happening in washington and think, they are missing the
boat. the economy is a much bigger issue, don't get me wrong, they need to balance the budget and need to take care of the fiscal issues, but more importantly, we need to get the economy going and get people back to work and, that fiscal affects the middle class now and the fact they talk about anything that might make it worse is a bad sign about what is happening in washington. >> chris: let's talk briefly, and i have run into a time crunch in a minute and i'll ask you for quick answers on a couple of specifics. the problems your party had, on election day, with hispanics, has been well documented. 71% voted for obama, 27%, for romney. governor walker, does your party need to rethink where it stands on the dream act and the whole issue of the 11 million illegals who are in this country? >> oh, i think we need to find a way to move forward and we want more people who want to live the american dream. the country is based on
immigrant and we have to find a way to welcome them in and who want to live the piece of the american dream and before i was in governor i was a washington executive and historically won every hispanic warren, because i had a message that resonated with everyone, i had help with school choice and parents who wanted kids to have the opportunity they deserved and we need to talk about that and if we share the message with all the voters we'll do better, whether hispanic voters or other voters. we have a message for all. >> chris: and, unmarried women, voted for obama by a margin of 67%, to 31%. governor, you say to republicans, don't change your principles, modernize. don't moderate. but, you've got to know during this campaign, the democrats hammered your party. when it came to freedom of
choice on abortion, when it came to access to birth control, when it came to funding of planned parenthood. how do you convince unmarried women that you are looking out for them? >> well, chris, a couple of things. one, i think we can still be true to our principles, and i'm pro-life and i follow teachings of my church and faith but at the same time we can respect what we disagree with and we don't need to demonize them and respect the fact others have different conclusions based on their own sincerely held beliefs and we had candidates in indiana and missouri that said offensive things and, also hurt the republican party across the board and we don't need to pander or change our principles, but at the same time can be respectful. you mentioned something, look, when a majority of voters in this election think the democratic party is more likely to cut tax than the middle class and the republican party, it shows we have a problem with single women and middle class voters but voters across the
country and means we have a serious problem about making sure voters understand, what we as a party stand for and the principles we are pursuing and we are the party fighting for the middle class and that is female voters and hispanic voters and every voter out there. >> chris: less than a minute left. both of you have decided not to set up state health care exchanges under obamacare but rather to let the feds come in and do it. i guess the question i have, is, would you agree that at this point with the president reelected, obamacare is here to stay? >> well, it is the law and we made it clear, the difference is, we pointed out in our states and bobby feels the same in his and other governors, including democrats, the options, we are given, the state-run partnership, defer to the federal government, the state run option is really state in name only and provides all the same stipulation and, utah state, that has and exchange cannot use it to qualify for the
federal program so in the end, is it state name only, we'd rather have the federal government do it, as much as it pains us, believing in federalism, in the end it is better they do it and not incur the potential costs to our taxpayers, than the state-run exchange would expose us to. >> chris: governor walker, governor jindal, we have to leave it there. there is more to talk about and we'll have you back to do it and track where the two of you try to take the party in the coming months. thank you, gentlemen. >> thanks, chris. >> thanks, chris. >> chris: up next, israel prepares for a possible invasion of gaza, and, congress investigates the benghazi terror attack, we'll ask our sunday group what is at stake for u.s. national security in both areas, when we come right back. ♪ billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. billion dollars today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else.
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[♪] >> we'll continue to exercise with prudence and self-restraint while defending our citizens against terrorism. >> chris: israeli prime minister netanyahu making it clear his government will not allow hamas to keep firing rockets into israel. and, it is time for our sunday group. bill kristol of the weekly standard. bob woodward from the "washington post," as well as the author of the new book "the price of politics", kimberley strassel of the "wall street journal" and charles lane also from the "washington post." i think we'd all agree when militants are raining missiles down on your country, any government is going to defend themselves. on the other hand, bill, when israel invaded gaza four years ago it ended up being a lot
longer and a lot messier, three weeks, a thousand palestinians were called, how tough a call for netanyahu to decide to go in on the ground. >> i think he'd prefer not to go on the ground, and they'd love to do it without that and the big difference, this time, from -- one dinnefference is the difference of the administration, seeking to distance itself, from israel and is ending the first term supporting israel, an interesting evolution on the part of president obama and from my point of view, a hopeful one. >> chris: and there are a couple of other differences,bob, hamas has longer range missiles than four years ago and the middle east, of 2012, is very different than the middle east of 2008. we have the arab spring and egypt is no longer run by a friendly dictator. but by the muslim brotherhood. leaders of the muslim brotherhood. what are the challenges for israel, and for the u.s., now? >> well, if you look at the
whole foreign policy portfolio that obama is facing, not just the problem of gaza but the problem of pakistan, iran, egypt, libya is still not a stable situation. i think it only amplifies the problem that this is a really dangerous world and i think part of obama's struggle, in the coming months, and years, can he get some hold on exactly what our policies are, what is the degree of toughness that we are going to employ. because, i think that is still in doubt. >> chris: kim, let's turn to benghazi. congressional committees held a flurry of closed-door sessions this week with top administration officials. the best that you can tell, because they were close to her, what did we learn about administration actions before, during and after the attack. >> we are hearing a whole range of excuses why we had the different comments, in the beginning about whether or not
it was the video, whether or not it was the terrorist attack and you have heard the argument maybe it was a hybrid, there was a protest in cairo that inspired the militants to act and, whether or not susan rice was talking about classified or unclassified talking points and another theory, they knew it was terrorism and worried it down. because they wanted more time to pursue who it actually was and the bottom line, a week after this happened, the administration sent susan rice out to say that this was the video. even though it is pretty clear they knew all along it wasn't and that question has not been answered even as a result of these hearings and those are going to have to be the big question going forward. >> chris: chuck? >> we may never get to the bottom of this question of the discrepancy between the facts of the talking points. i would point out the president said at the debate, memably, i said it was a terrorist attack the next day in the rose garden, remember that. so, there is even a kind of "so
what" quality about determining susan rice didn't call it one. the real issue that i don't think a lot of light is shed on this last week, what were the failures that went into the vulnerability of the diplomatic installation in the first place. that is the real -- everyone agrees that that is the real issue. and nothing i have seen that came out of the hearing clarifies much what went wrong with the preparations. why wasn't the place secure and what does it tell us about the whole approach, the light footprint that the obama administration recommended. >> chris: what would that be? i haven't heard that phrase until today. but it is in the papers. >> the idea that once we had gadhafi out in libya, we weren't going to go in with a big new presence and huge new diplomatic installation and we were going to try and do more sort of with less as it were. >> chris: not in libya... >> and that is being applied across the region as well. >> chris: it is interesting, up to this point, secretary of state clinton has kind of
avoided much fire of libya. she said that she was taking responsibility for it, but that was in the middle of the night, at an interview down in south america. and she has been absent from the hearings, so far. as they focus, maybe less on the timeline and more on the question of why these diplomats were so undefended, so vulnerable, with all the warnings before hand, could secretary clinton come under fire. >> she'll have to answer questions, but i imagine what she'll say is they didn't realize how vulnerable they were and things were not reported up the chain, and i think the cia didn't want a big diplomatic footprint in benghazi, they were running a complex organization out there and, i'm not sure pa or the of this -- it was obviously a mistake and i don't know where it goes and secretary clinton will leave office and one striking thing, the question
of president obama's foreign policy challenges ahead, he'll deal with them with an up entire new team, hillary clinton, and, bob gate and inherited david petraeus and, centcom and, then to cia and impressive people of stature and now has to fill all of those positions, and, it will be interesting who he thinks can help him deal with these challenges. >> chris: so obama, who has more than a passing acquaintance with scandals, where do you think the libya scandal is now. >> there are serious unanswered questions but the suggestion they should have watergate-style, independent, special committees to investigate this, i don't see that yet, because the question seems to be what did susan rice know and when did she know it which falls not very high on the scale of, do we really need to get to the bottom of this. i kind of disagree with chuck. i think we'll find out what
happened and i think we should and you never know what this is going to show. but, the real issue is libyan policy, you know, what are we going to do with this country that we don't know what the future is, and, light footprint might be the answer, it might not be the answer. and, so this is all going to be mixed up. but i don't think, you know, a new sam irvin is going to appear on the scene or howard baker, to investigate this. it does not, at least at this point, you don't know what don't know, fall on that scale. >> chris: we have to take a break, when we come back, the president and congressional leaders meet on the fiscal cliff, and, surprise... come out sounding optimistic. but are they, really? ♪
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>> chris: still to come our power player of the week. >> scary, overwhelming, frightening, unbelievable. >> chris: she started piano lessons at age 9, six years later, had a music scholarship to howard university. >> if you have fundamentals, you can go anywhere. >> chris: stay tuned. we'll be right back.
>> president barack obama: my hope is that this is going to be the beginning of a fruitful process, where we are able to come to an agreement, that will reduce our deficit. >> we're serious about cutting spending and solving our fiscal dilemma and i believe we can do this and avert the fiscal cliff that is right in front of us today. >> chris: president obama and speaker boehner sounding up beat friday about prospects for cutting a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff and we're back now with the panel. so, after the president and congressional leaders met at the white house, on friday, the rhetoric was reassuring, the question is, is it real? do you get any sense, bob and this is the subject of your new book, that they really do see, are beginning to see a path to a compromise or are they trying to reassure nervous consumers before the christmas holidays and, investors because the stock market is done a thousand points. >> everyone is nervous about this. this is the last chance and the
next six weeks could be six weeks that shook the united states if they don't fix this. there clearly is a new mood but the way they'll solve this, is kind of hostage exchange, in other words, the republicans are determined not to let tax rates go up and the president is determined or is determined to get more revenue and, it is possible to do this and the president is going along, it seems, with it some idea of entitlement reform, that we are going to actually cut spending. but this is -- you know, they're going to have to -- they are at loggerheads on this tax issue. and, i'm not sure how they fix that. >> chris: well -- >> the new mood is not enough. you've got to sit down and do the numbers. >> chris: well, we're going to have kim strassel explain that to us. she works for the "wall street journal." that is the initial, immediate
big sticking point, taxes. republicans say -- i was surprised right after the election, we'll put more revenue on the table and do it by limiting deduction and closing loopholes and the president made it clear, you have to raise tax rates, not all the way up to 36%, and how do they resolve that in six weeks. >> it depend on whether or not the president is willing to bend. there is reason for optimism. for the first time we have a framework and for years, democrats said you have to give us revenue and as u, right after the election, boehner said, okay. have revenue and the president moved the goal post. and, my liberal base -- >> mentioned once or twice during the campaign. >> yes, and, the question is, are you going to stick on what you campaigned on, or are you going to find a compromise in the and the reality is, if you are looking for votes in congress, john boehner may be able to get enough of his people to go along and actually do a deal in which your get revenue,
from, for instance closing deductions an loopholes but will not get them to go along on raising rates and there is the rhetoric the president engaged in on the campaign and the reality of washington and he has to compromise on that, if he wants a deal. >> chris: does he have to compromise or do the republicans have to compromise. >> >> well, first of all, i don't understand the -- where the republicans think they have a lot of leverage here. and, you have seen that in the comments not just by boehner, but people elsewhere, essentially capitulating on revenue, saying, okay. we'll let there be more revenue. what the president is doing, i think makes sense, kim may disagree. >> go over the cliff. >> okay, show me somehow, okay, show me details, not enough for john boehner to say there will be more revenue and he's squeezing them and, he is trying to -- making them sweat a little bit. that is negotiation and is normal and natural. and i don't think it is irresponsible as you say. and, now whether that will
ultimately rut in agreement or not, on the big picture, in the next six weeks, i doubt. but, at least possible, they'll get into some kind of transitional thing that will carry us into the next year -- >> lo and behold, i mean, boehner offered more revenue, last year. made it clear, $800 billion over ten years, that is essentially what they are discussing now. what they have to do in the next six weeks is come up with what they call a down payment where they'll do some spending cuts and they'll do something to get more revenue in a way that will be acceptable to both sides. that is a hard plan to devise, quite frankly. >> chris: and let me explain what came out of the meeting on friday, is the idea, a two-step compromise, there is a down payment and talk about $50 billion, perhaps, by the end of the year and, then a promise with triggers they'd achieve a
grand bargain -- heard that before -- next year, major tax reform and entitlement reform. bill kristol, how realistic is the two step approach. >> it is pretty realistic and republicans, there will be a deal by december 31, and i believe republicans will yield a bit on top rates. president obama ran twice on this platform and won, last i looked, both presidential elections. and -- >> a lot of news, you said it wouldn't kill republicans to raise -- in fact, as you know, you were favorably cited not by name, by the president during his news conference and i'm sure that -- >> a bad moment! you've got to persevere, when these things happen. >> chris: what was the reaction. >> the private reaction, was honestly, including conservative ones, was, i don't know, do we really -- maybe, it was good you said that, we need to cut a deal and he won two elections and didn't raise rates correctly in 2009, we were in the midst of a horrible downturn and,
republicans won an off year election, in 2010 and, i don't think republicans have the leverage or, using all of their, whatever leverage they have, to maintain rates at 35%, instead of 37 or 38, and it is not important enough, as a matter of policy and the big deal is big tax reform with lower rates. >> chris: 30 second left, bob, the subject of your book. how optimistic are you they make a deal and avert the fiscal cliff? >> let's hope they do. but they are going to burn bill kristol's tea party card, hearing him talk like this. you are off the reservation. >> the tea party guys don't care if millionaires pay a couple percent more in taxes, honestly. >> chris: are you optimistic. >> if it isn't fixed we'll have a horrible catastrophe. >> chris: on that happy note. thank you. see you next week. good for fox news sunday. don't forget to check out panel plus where our group picks up with the discussion on our web site, foxnewssunday.com, we'll
post the video before noon eastern time and follow us on twitter, @foxnewssunday. up next our power player of the week. it means cleaner, cheaper american-made energy. but we've got to be careful how we get it. design the wells to be safe. thousands of jobs. use the most advanced technology to protect our water. billions in the economy. at chevron, if we can't do it right, we won't do it at all. we've got to think long term. we've got to think long term. ♪
>> chris: she has been part of the soundtrack of our lives for more than 40 years. and, her songs of love and loss reflect her own life. here's our power player of the week. ♪ >> i'm still here, you know. >> chris: at age 73, roberta flak is indeed still here. still captivating audiences, with her magical voice, and music. ♪ >> chris: it started, so easily. ♪ >> chris: back in 1973, she won the grammys for record and song of the year, for "first time ever i saw your face." >> chris: what was it like to hit it big? >> scary, overwhelming, frightening, unbelievable. there's one. is this me?
>> chris: then a year later, she won the grammys again, for "killing me softly" ♪ ♪ >> chris: two years in a row, song of the year and record of the year and did you think it would go on forever? >> yes, you always do. why not. >> chris: she suddenly stopped recording and gave few concerts. >> chris: three years, you didn't release an album. you didn't... >> why didn't i release an album? i don't know. i didn't have anything to say. >> chris: she had serious throat problems but as she said, she's still here. now, 40 years after her big break, she released an album of beatles songs, inspired by living next-door to john lennon, when he was writing "imagine." >> in my computer room is also the back wall of his music room, and i'm hearing... ♪ ♪ ♪ imagine there is no
heaven...♪ >> chris: it is hard to imagine her journey. she grew up in a largely segregated northern virginia and started piano lessons at age 9. six years later had a music scholarship to howard university. >> what do you do at college at the age of 15. >> i could have gotten there at 14 but they said i was too short. >> chris: she was classically trained and her real ambition was to be a concert pianist and that may be why six years ago, she started the roberta flak school of music at her charter school in the bronx. >> you can become the next jay-z or beyonce or whoever, barbra streisand but there has to be basic fundamentals. >> chris: speaking of fundamentals, she still takes voice lessons. >> ♪ ♪ the closer i get to you... >> you keep polishing the tool. you keep warming it up and shining it and making it
brighter. >> ♪ ♪ the more you make me see... >> i want to sing until i can't sing anymore and play until i can't play anymore. >> chris: what is this excitement when you get on the stage? >> the song. ♪ >> chris: roberta flak hopes to open more music schools in washington and barbados and she intends to keep on singing. this program note: next sunday senator john mccain joins us to discuss the libya investigation and fiscal cliff and more and we hope you will tune in. that's it for today. have a great thanksgiving. and we'll see you, next fox news sunday. and we'll see you, next fox news sunday. ♪ captioning by, closed captioning services, inc.